Monday, March 4, 2013

How To Round out Your Party

       I see a lot of people asking how they can round out their party.  They already have a wizard, a melee fighter, and a Zen Archer, and they are wondering what they are missing.  Now, there is a scientific way to find out!

       Science - what a baller.

       Check out this Google Doc: Rounding Out Your Party

You can then either edit it directly - there are multiple sheets in the google doc, so use one of those if somebody is editing the first page - or save it to your computer and use it from there.

       In the left column, put how many of each class/archetype your party already has.  The middle column will then tell you what your party is good and bad at.  The right column will provide suggestions to help you round out your party.  The higher the number is, the better it is for your party.  A match number might be negative, but still add to the party - just look for the highest one!

      A party's and class's capabilities is broken down into the following categories:
  • Does Melee Damage
  • Does Ranged Damage 
  • Heals my Allies
  • Acts as a Tank
  • Many Skills, Great out of combat utility
  • Does Blasting, Area Damage
  • Buffs my Allies
  • De-Buffs My enemies and Controls the Field
  • Has Magical Capabilities
  • Trapfinder
  • Acts as the Face of the Party
  • Sneaky

The General and Combat Party Scores will help you get a grasp of how many bases your party covers.  General Party counts all factors evenly, while Combat counts the Combat factors more than the non-combat factors.  Get rid of those negatives to help yourself out.

Feel free to post your party score online or in the comments!



  1. Hey, I left you a message on paizo

  2. after the second person (vanilla antipaladin and switch hitter inquisitor) everything only seems to subtract from the party score according to the right side--they're hardly a perfect party but your calculator seems to think otherwise.

    wait, i stand corrected, it seems only the zen archer monk is good with that party.

    1. Don't think that just because a match number is negative, it takes away from a party. Just look for the higher relative numbers. The highest number adds the most to the party, even if it is -500!

    2. except that looking at it, things with higher negatives just seem to step on existing characters' toes (the highest negative one for a party of one antipaladin is yet another antipaladin, followed closely by the synth summoner, grabbing the summoner keeps those same two classes as the largest negatives, with no positives in sight anywhere), so just going with the highest negative (such as your -500 example) will have the exact opposite of a large effect. going for whatever has the lowest negative will either slightly increase your score or still reduce it anyway.

      just to make sure its not just the antipaladin sucking at compatibility with other classes, i did the same thing with the regular paladin, with the same results.

      also, it seems unless your party wither has a rogue, urban ranger, or archeologist bard your score will absolutely suck, no exceptions (because the -4 trapfinding i assume, despite traps being completely trivial in a party that can summon things).

    3. Keep in mind that -10 is higher than -20. Think of a higher number as closer to positive 100, or think of a number scale with higher numbers being to the right. -500 is lower than -10.

      If you have other ways to deal with trapfinding, then simply ignore that score!

  3. In all honesty Ive never understood the use of a tank in pathfinder. Mainly because there isn;t really a taunt mechanism that I know ofand a good DM/GM isnt going to have the bad guys focus said tank. Sure you might have full plate and ungodly HP but why would someone attacking the party go after that guy and not the wizard in just robes?

    1. Tanks work in pathfinder and 3.5 because DM's babysit the PC's and controls the opponent intelligently.

    2. For approximately the same reason that defensive guards go for offensive guards instead of quarterbacks. Part of a tank's job is to stand between the bad guys and the wizard in robes. The bad guy can't hit someone he can't reach.

  4. A tank is not useful if he is not buffed. It is the mission of your buffers to make your tank useful.

  5. It seems that no mattr what you plug in, this spreadsheet tells you "Zen archer! Do Zen archer! I frikkin' LOVE zen archer!" with Ranged cavalier a second. THis is true even if you plug in a zen archer, it still wants another one. Is ranged combat THAT good in pathfinder, or is there just some weird weighting going on?

    1. See those negative symbols? That means the class is a bad choice. The bigger the negative number, the worse it is. I would guess that you are thinking -88 is better than -50. -88 is, in actuality, worse than -50 because it is more negative. You are looking for the biggest positive numbers you can find.

      If you have just a zen archer, the spreadsheet advises you that another zen archer would be the worst possible choice, with a ranged fighter as the second worst possible choice. The classes that best compliment just the Zen Archer are:
      Vanilla Summoner: 50
      Oracle of Life: 50
      Oracle of Bones/Juju: 50
      Melee Paladin: 48
      Melee Antipaladin: 48
      Scarred Witch Doctor: 47
      Battle/Metal Melee Oracle: 47

      These classes provide melee/tanky/spellcasting goodness, and some heal. All the things the zen archer can't do.

  6. " You can then either edit it directly - there are multiple sheets in the google doc, so use of of those if somebody is editing the first page."

    Should go something like, "You can then either edit it directly - there are multiple sheets in the google doc, so use one of those if somebody is editing the first page - or save it to your computer and use it from there."

    Just a minor phrasing snaffu.

  7. Hey Zenith, are there plans to possibly update the sheet for new content (such as hybrids and occult classes)? It seems like a really awesome tool and I was just curious if there were plans to expand it.

    1. Yes, I will expand it to all the new classes at some point, but probably not for a month or two.

    2. Awesome. Looking forward it. No pressure. :P

      You'd need the time anyway. The nature of the hybrids can make things a bit odd, and then occult classes are a vector of their own since their 'magic' is different. I'm just looking forward to seeing such a helpful tool being expanded further into new content.

  8. Just want to second the request for an update!

  9. Is the update still going to happen?