Tuesday, July 7, 2015

Diceless Pathfinder

Dice have long been a staple of roleplaying games, but there's a lot to be said for going diceless.  Combat moves much faster.  Calculations aren't needed, and math is significantly reduced.  Misses encourage strategy and variation.  Skill is more important than luck.

Going diceless is remarkably easy.  Any time you would roll a die, simply replace it with the number from the following chart.

D20: +11
D12: +7
D10: +6
D8: +5
D6: +4
D4: +3
D3: +2
D2: +1

Thus, if you have a Reflex save of +5, your Reflex save is now 16.  If you CMB is normally +18, it is now 29.  If your weapon normally deals 2d8 +3, it now deals 13 damage.  If your fireball normally deals 10d6, it now deals 40 damage. You should feel free to precalculate and write these numbers on your character sheet to save time.

Example Combat


Blur, Displacement, and Random Tables

Rolls for which there are no possible modifiers should still use the appropriate die. This includes most random encounters tables, random loot tables, random weather tables, displacement, and the confusion effect.

"Roll Twice and Take the Higher Number"

There are a few effects that allow you to roll twice and take the higher number.  For d20's, add +3 to the standard result (14).  For d12 - d10, add +2.  for d8 - d2, add +1.

There are a few effects that allow you to roll twice and take the lower number.  For d20's, subtract -3 to the standard result (8).  For d12 - d10, subtract -2.  for d8 - d3, subtract 1.  d2 has no difference.

There are a few effects that allow you to reroll a die.  If you are trying to get a higher result, for d20's, add +2 to the standard result (13).  For d12 - d8, add +1.  For d6 - d2, there is no difference.

There are a few effects that allow you to reroll a die.  If you are trying to get a lower result, for d20's, subtract -2 to the standard result (9).  For d12 - d8, subtract -1.  For d6 - d2, there is no difference.


Optional Rule: Similar Subsequent Saves

There are a few effects which require the same subsequent save to be made over the course of several rounds.  The most obvious example is poisons, which you must make the same DC save against until you succeed, but there are also many spells such as hideous laughter (for which you get a second attempt to save) and suffocation.  In Pathfinder with dice, these effects often rely on luck to get the weak out.

In these cases, each subsequent save is made at a cumulative +1 bonus to a maximum of 19.  Thus, a rogue suffering from a deadly poison would "roll" an 11 on the first round, a 12 on the second round, a 13 on the third round, etc...


Criticals

No dice means no luck, and no luck means no criticals.  If you aren't rolling, you obviously can't roll a 20 or a 1.  So how do we determine criticals on attacks?  There are three methods to consider.  My personal recommendation is #2.


Critical Method 1: No Criticals

There aren't any criticals.  This goes in line with the general philosophy, but changes the balance of the game a bit.  To accommodate for this weapons that have a crit range of 20/x3 or 19-20/x2 gain a +1 bonus to attack.  Weapons that have a crit range of 20/x4 or 18-20/x2 gain a +2 to attack.  Improved Critical, keen, and similar effects double this.

Unfortunately, effects that occur on criticals just won't happen.


Critical Method 2: Lucky Hits are Criticals

Critical Failure: Missing the target number by one (an attack of 29 against an AC of 30) results in a critical failure (unless you use crit cards or similar, there's no difference between a miss and a critical failure).

Critical Success (20): Hitting the target number on the nose (an attack of 30 against an AC of 30) results in a critical success for weapons with a critical range of 20.

Critical Success (19-20):Hitting the target number on the nose or one above (an attack of 30 or 31 against an AC of 30) results in a critical success for weapons with a critical range of 19-20.

Critical Success (18-20):Hitting the target number on the nose or one or two above (an attack of 30, 31, or 32 against an AC of 30) results in a critical success for weapons with a critical range of 18-20.

In this option, a target cannot be subject to a critical hit more than once a round - all subsequent criticals are just hits.  Creatures may choose to forgo their critical for a hit if they think a stronger critical is coming up.

There is  some gaming that can be done here.  For example, if a barbarian with a crit range 20 weapon is attacking at 32 against AC 30, he can ask his buddy to move out of flanking to get that sweet spot.  However, this requires planning, strategy, and knowledge, which should all be rewarded.


Critical Method 3: Powerful Hits are Criticals

Critical Failure: Missing the target number by ten or more results in a critical failure (an attack of 20 or less against AC 30) (unless you use crit cards or similar, there's no difference between a miss and a critical failure).

Critical Success (20): Getting ten or more over the target number results in a critical hit (an attack of 40 or more against AC 30).

Critical Success (19 - 20): Getting nine or more over the target number results in a critical hit (an attack of 39 or more against AC 30).

Critical Success (18 - 20): Getting eight or more over the target number results in a critical hit (an attack of 38 or more against AC 30). 

In this option, a target cannot be subject to a critical hit more than once a round - all subsequent criticals are just hits.  Creatures may choose to forgo their critical for a hit if they think a stronger critical is coming up.

Whereas criticals are usually an equalizing agent, this places even more power in the hands of those who can hit well, and even less power in the hands of those who can't.  It also encourages people not to use the lowest parts of their iterative attacks.


Effects of Going Diceless

Increased Strategy and Teamwork: Consider a game of Pathfinder with dice.  Your barbarian moves up to attack the orc.  He rolls an 11, adds his attack bonus (+6) for a 17 ... and misses the orc.  What does he do next?

If you are like virtually every other player out there, your next turn is going to be the exact same.  You've invested into hitting things after all. Maybe it was the roll.  You'll stand in about the same spot, roll the same die, and hope for a higher number.  Not much strategy there.

With diceless Pathfinder, you know that unless the situation changes, you won't hit the orc.  You won't just stand there like a numbskull and swing away again.  Instead, you'll look around and try to think of something new and creative.

Perhaps you'll move into flanking for next turn.  Perhaps you'll try to trip him.  Perhaps you'll make an intimidate check to lower his saves.  Perhaps you'll grab a handful of sand and try to blind him. Perhaps you'll convince the bard to aid another and help you get a hit.  Perhaps you'll beat a hasty retreat.  Whatever you do, it won't be just another swing (and possible miss).

Faster Combat: No dice means combat will go incredibly quickly.  There is no calculation to do, and no time spent rolling dice.  Turns can be as short as "24 to attack," "That's a hit," "18 damage," with no calculation or dice rolling to slow things down.

Reduced Math: Math is reduced to small modifiers, subtracting damage, and determining whether one number is bigger than another.  Gone are the days of 24 + 17 attack rolls, or adding together 13 d8s for a dragon's breath.  All of these numbers should be pre-calculated. Going diceless is perfect for those who really hate the math aspects of the game.

No More Eventual Criticals: You'll never hit an enemy with an AC of 100, no matter how much you roll.  Likewise, a character attacking at a +100 will never miss.  This is not only realistic, it also encourages strategy.  You've got to find another way of dealing with the problem than throwing dice at it.

Decreased Chance: Combat will be based entirely on skill, and not on luck.  It becomes impossible to blame or credit the die with a loss or a win.  Victories are that much more satisfying knowing that they were earned.

On the flip side, chance can be fun, and rolling high is enjoyable.  However, by keeping criticals we can keep most of the thrill of the seemingly random failure or success.

16 comments:

  1. I like this idea, but also the aspect of chance. I would give each player a range of d20 results, 1-20. They get to choose from these results until they've used up all 20, at which point they reset.

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    1. Hmm - that would probably encourage them to use their high rolls for crucial issues, then use their low rolls for artificially made important issues. I feel like it would be difficult to prevent PCs from exploiting it.

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  2. This is really interesting! I'm going to experiment with it for (solo) Warhammer 40K roleplays. That's a d100 system, so a base roll of 51 (which is an auto-failure in general, except that there are plenty of ways, such as getting into close range, to boost your roll).

    How would you deal with character creation? 12s across the board for 3d6? I should think point-buy would be preferable, to allow some interest and customization.

    What about multiple attacks? Say you were hitting on 31, but were firing multiple shots against a roll of 51; would you allow for hits in this case (Fire three shots with a one-third chance to hit, statistically one will)? Or is fighting an all or nothing affair?

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    1. Thanks! I don't know the Warhammer 40K system oat all, so I don't know how it would work for that. Pathfinder is nice in that you get iterative attacks - martial characters are normally attacking at +5/+10/+15 or something like that, which makes up for multiple attacks.

      If Warhammer has multiple attacks all at the same attack modifier, then I might do something like the following:

      1 attack
      2 attacks: 34 and 67
      3 attacks: 26, 51, and 76,
      4 attacks: 21, 41, 61, and 81,

      etc...

      That will probably be a better representative.

      For character creation, you are rolling dice for which there is no possible modifier. So you'd still roll them. I like point-buy better in any case.

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  3. Interesting idea, but it sounds really strange for me. Our party's ace in the hole (mix of magus (kensai)/monk or, in the recent time after release of Pathfinder Unchained, magus (kensai)/warpriest (sacred fist) with average AC of 17-18 (without any armor) at the first level and of 30-45 at the seventh - ninth level) will became seemingly unstoppable in the melee/non-magical ranged combat. Even now most of monsters need to roll 20 to simple scratch him; with that system he will destroy everything that don't have some magical abilities.

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    1. This is probably actually one of the places that it functions most like dice. If monsters are usually wasting their actions by trying for a 5% chance to hit, they'll instead realize they can never straight up hit him and try something else. Perhaps grapple him, trip him, move onto other enemies, use their special abilities. It won't be a bunch of monsters futilely trying to hit him and missing. It will be more varied and interesting.

      Honestly though, this is one of the cases in which it changes the least. The difference between 0% and 5% is statistically not that significant.

      (How on earth is his AC that high at level 7?)

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    2. We use 4d6 system of creation, so this lucky man has agility and wisdom modifiers near +4 at the first level. At seventh... I can't just give you link to his char sheet because it's written not in English, but, as example, there is:
      sacred fist 5/kensai 4
      bunch of wondrous items that improve his abilities
      full AC 10 + 7 (AGI) + 7 (Wisdom) + 4 (magical shield bonus) + 4 (magical armor bonus) + 5 dodge + 2 deflection = 39 AC. Sometimes before fight this man casts barkskin. It isn't his masterpiece, really, my player sometimes build more monstrous characters. And... He is almost untripable because of CMD 44.

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    3. Geez - he has 24 Dexterity and 24 Wisdom by level 7? How is that possible? If he started off with 18 (+4) in both, then it would take a +6 headband and belt to get the rest of the way: that's 72,000gp right there. Add in the ring of Protection and that's an even 80,000gp That's almost 4 times wealth by level (23,500).

      I guess the magical shield bonus and magical armor bonus are from Shield and Mage Armor? Where's the +5 dodge bonus come from?

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    4. We cannot find his charsheet at level 7, so there is level 9 build.
      He is aasimar-garuda-blooded, in which case has +2 to AGI and WIS.
      so his primary attributes is:
      AGI 20 + 4 = 24
      WIS 20 + 4 = 24
      INT 18 + 4 = 22
      (yes, he is really lucky with three 6 + 6 + 6 results)
      +5 dodge bonus came from kensai levels (+1/level, when he wield his chosen weapon)
      He cheated with items, made them himself with the rules of items with spell effects, so he just activate his +4 owl's wisdom/fox's cunning/cat's grace. Every item costs only 6,000 gp. In similar way he uses mage armor and mage shield.

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    5. Oh - well if he cheated and you know about it then you should probably enforce the rules. It seems like it's seriously unbalancing the game.

      There is a 0.000000991% chance that he rolled three 18s for his attributes. That's less than a one in a million chance. Not to start a fuss, but if he cheated on creating items, then he likely cheated on this too.

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    6. Hey! Its really my dice result! Even if this is minimal chance throw 18 three times, but it is possible. And creating these things was really fair. You just never considered the rules from this point of view.
      Sorry for my English.

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    7. It's your game and you can play it however you want. As long as nobody is having a bad time because of it, then you are good. But, if other players feel overshadowed and have a worse time because of what you are playing, then you should reconsider your build.

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    8. Khem. Not cheats, only rules. If you are not able to create like that, it's your problem, is not it? This is called povergaming or optimization.

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    9. Not "rules" or "cheats", actually. Only exploits. Munchkism as is =\

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    10. Sounds like there is some power disparity. Remember that there's no prize to be won for having the strongest build. Good luck with your game, and I hope that your friends don't have a worse time because of it.

      Just so you know, your friend is mimicking the effects of a headband of Wisdom +4 with a continuous Owl's Wisdom item (incorrectly pricing it at 6,000). From the rules: "The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item, the GM should require using the price of the item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect."

      Good luck in your game.

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  4. I'm really sorry. Our party-mates have told me that I used word "cheat" incorrectly. There weren't cheats. Only exploits.

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